tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post2073638836500391041..comments2023-10-15T09:36:12.013+01:00Comments on Countercultural Father: The Heresy of UnderstandingBen Trovatohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15299230935468606845noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-70981769347723857962013-01-19T21:04:09.638+00:002013-01-19T21:04:09.638+00:00Not moving away from, though possibly enriching......Not moving away from, though possibly enriching... Development of doctrine and all that!Ben Trovatohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15299230935468606845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-82182230481466450432013-01-19T17:50:49.916+00:002013-01-19T17:50:49.916+00:00I think you are now moving away from your original...I think you are now moving away from your original argument on to some of the excellent reasons for Latin in the liturgy: temporal and spatial continuity in worship, emphasising the sacredness by using a special language (although that can be done with the venacualr too) and (in a more recent post) the fact that a perfect translation is possible.Part-time Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183889477468203531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-2232047954000269982013-01-19T15:03:00.042+00:002013-01-19T15:03:00.042+00:00Hugh - thanks for your kind words.
P-t P - I quit...Hugh - thanks for your kind words.<br /><br />P-t P - I quite agree that poor catechesis is a major factor; I also think that it is not unrelated to the thinking behind the imposition of a vernacular liturgy as normative (which is not what Sacrosanctum Concilium mandated , of course).<br /><br />Further, beneath the specific meanings of the liturgical texts, I think there are some more foundational meanings that are better communicated by Latin than by the vernacular: the unity, holiness, catholicity, and apostolic foundation of the Faith being four of them <i> (unam, sanctam catholicam et apostolicam...)</i>; also the fact that we are encountering the numinous; and further the fact that we need good catechesis to understand these Sacred Mysteries.Ben Trovatohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15299230935468606845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-48886253335788823892013-01-19T14:26:54.496+00:002013-01-19T14:26:54.496+00:00The post makes several arguments. Firstly, we shou...The post makes several arguments. Firstly, we should not reduce the complexities and mysteries of the Faith to simpler notions to make them more accessible. I agree of course. Secondly, a lack of understanding of the Faith amongst Catholics can be attributed in part to liturgy in the vernacular. Whilst it is difficult to unpick the influence of different changes, my own view is that this is not the case. I would hold that poor catechesis should take almost all the blame. Thirdly, that reverting to Latin would improve understanding further. There are some very good reasons for using more Latin in our liturgy but improving understanding making it harder to understand is not one of them.<br />However there is a kernel of truth in what you say. I was not happy with "consubstantial" when first introduced. I was not sure it meant anything different from "of one being" and certainly not anything different from "of one substance". On reflection I think you are right. Using "consubstantial" reminds us that here the Creed is addressing a difficult idea that we need to research and reflect on to develop our understanding. However other elements of the Creed are more straightforward and I can’t see that reciting “Crucifíxus étiam pro nobis sub Póntio Pilátof” rather than “For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate” is going to improve the congregation’s understanding of the Faith. <br />Part-time Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183889477468203531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-60119368357371298822013-01-19T11:33:00.981+00:002013-01-19T11:33:00.981+00:00Most things in life that are worthwhile require at...Most things in life that are worthwhile require at least a modicum of effort, I find. Good post Ben.Hugh of Avalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11789229221570383252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-90277562717506329152011-12-10T17:19:08.020+00:002011-12-10T17:19:08.020+00:00One Whitsunday about twenty years ago while listen...One Whitsunday about twenty years ago while listening to the first reading at mass it dawned upon me that the vernacular could sometimes actually be a barrier to understanding! I was certain in my own mind that St Luke had mentioned neither "cretins" nor "prostitutes" among the hearers of the apostles' preaching on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem but as far as our reader was concerned they were there! In short, however simple the language, there is never any guarantee all will be able to understand. The real problem here, I suspect, is those who do not wish to understand.Patriciushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08906131174326742939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-253865779660854699.post-82250813107555754422011-12-10T16:25:34.672+00:002011-12-10T16:25:34.672+00:00An excellent post and oh so true!An excellent post and oh so true!Holy Family Guildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12452911116023277078noreply@blogger.com